2025 Annual Member Meeting

RECORDING:  In the spirit of reconciliation, AustralianSuper acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country throughout Australia and the connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are present today.

PAULA BENSON: Welcome to the 2025 AustralianSuper Annual Member Meeting.  My name is Paula Benson.  I'm the Chief Strategy Officer at your Fund and it's my pleasure to be your MC for this event.  I'll begin by acknowledging the Traditional Custodians and Owners of the land on which we meet.  My colleagues and I are on the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation.  I pay my respects to their Elders past and present and I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. Earlier this year, the Executive team and I were extremely fortunate to be welcomed onto Palm Island as part of the Fund's First Nations remote outreach program.  We heard directly from First Nations peoples about the challenges people living in remote communities have engaging with their super. Through conversations like these, we can better understand and address structural barriers to make sure super is super for everyone.

This year, AustralianSuper turned 40 and the retirement savings we collectively managed for you reached $400 billion.  These milestones are symbols of our commitment to be the leading fund in the world's best super system for you.

AustralianSuper is your Fund and it's run to benefit 3.6 million members.  It's a profit‑for‑member fund, so we don't pay profits or dividends to shareholders. The money we make is for you, and your best financial interests drive all our decisions. We are extremely proud to work for you and every member, and we're pleased to share with you the important initiatives we're delivering to grow your retirement savings and enhance our service to you. We're also looking forward to your questions and suggestions, as these help us to improve what we can do for you. We hope that by the end of the meeting, you'll feel more informed about your Fund and more confident about your retirement. 

We have a quorum of AustralianSuper Directors present, along with the Fund's Executive, our actuary and our auditor, Stephanie Smith from PwC.  We aim to have the presentations completed in an hour, followed by a Question and Answer session for up to 45 minutes. You can type a question in the Q&A box on the right‑hand side of your screen at any time throughout the evening and we'll answer as many questions as we can.  We'll do our best to answer a broad range of questions, but please be aware we won't be able to answer questions about your personal circumstances and ask that you do not include any personal information in your question to protect your privacy. If we don't get to your question during the meeting, please be assured it will be answered in the Meeting Minutes, which are published on the AustralianSuper website in mid‑December.

It's important to understand that the information we're covering today may include general financial advice which doesn't take into account your personal objectives, your financial situation or your needs.  Before making a decision, please consider if the information is right for you. If you would like to speak to us about your personal circumstances, we would love to hear from you.  Please refer to the Contact Us tile on this page or the 'Tools & Advice' tab on our website. 

I'll now introduce Dr Don Russell to provide an update on behalf of the Board. Don joined the AustralianSuper Board as an Independent Director in May 2019 and was appointed Chair in September of that year. Don is a Director of Super Members Council Australia.  His previous Directorships include Deputy Chair of the Centre for Policy Development, the CSIRO and Chair of State Super.  Don has led government departments at both Commonwealth and State levels and he has consulted to the World Bank and Bankers Trust.  He has represented Australia at the OECD and served as Australia's Ambassador to Washington.  He was also Principal Adviser to The Honourable Paul Keating, both during his time as Treasurer and Prime Minister. Don has an exceptional background in a wide variety of sectors and brings a deep understanding of finance, superannuation and public policy to the Fund.  Please welcome Dr Don Russell.

DR DON RUSSELL: Thank you, Paula, and welcome, everyone.  Thank you for joining us.  Our Annual Member Meeting is an important event which has only grown in significance with each passing year. It's an opportunity for us to try and put current events into an understandable context and set out our plans for the future. Most importantly, it's a terrific opportunity for me and all the Directors to hear directly from you. 

Before we start, I'd like to acknowledge my fellow Directors, who are with us for this meeting, in particular Philippa Kelly, the Chair of AustralianSuper's Investment Committee, who will be discussing our investment strategy a little later.

In a year marked by global turmoil, the concerns facing many Australians today are real.  Global political instability and financial market volatility continue to impact us all, yet in the face of all this, our world‑class superannuation system is proving something of a bulwark, providing reassurance to people that they have complete ownership of an asset that gives them flexibility and options once they reach 60.  On top of that, the huge size of the superannuation pool strengthens the Australian economy and is an important driver of innovation and Australian excellence.

As Paula mentioned, AustralianSuper turned 40 a few months ago and our journey has been entwined with the development of our modern super system. AustralianSuper is now one of the 20 largest pension funds in the world and, over the last 10 years, the fastest‑growing of those funds.  It is conceivable that members' retirement savings could grow to $1 trillion in the next decade, and the Board is very conscious that the Fund needs to actively manage three powerful forces: firstly, the growth in members' retirement savings.  These savings need to be well invested and invested in a way that maximises long‑term returns.  Secondly, the growing engagement and expectations of members.  How members want to interact with us and the services they need is changing and the Fund needs to anticipate this and respond; and, thirdly, there will be a growing number of members who need guidance and support as they approach and enter retirement. Success will come from remaining agile, resilient and relentlessly focused on members.  Only in this way will we be able to continue harnessing the benefits of our size and our growth. 

Last year, our global investment team had to navigate the market reactions to global elections, trade tensions and other political events.  They did this whilst continuing to position the investment portfolio to deliver leading long‑term results for members. The team continues to evolve our investment model to be able to efficiently and effectively invest your savings, manage risks, strengthen systems and processes, and harness technology to maximise returns. Philippa Kelly and Mark Delaney will talk more about investment performance and the Fund's investment strategy. 

Last year, a number of member service initiatives were fully embedded, with very pleasing results. Our Bereavement Centre has now been operating for over a year and is providing families who make a death claim with greater care and faster outcomes. We improved our digital insurance services and enhanced our mobile app.  We made it easier for members to interact with us across a wide range of channels, and complaint volumes over the year have decreased by almost a third.  Our Member Experience teams continue to implement a multi‑year plan to enhance existing products and services and introduce new ones to meet our needs.  I am particularly excited about the work the teams are delivering in the area of education and guidance.  As people accumulate more retirement savings and as the nature of retirement changes, this work becomes more and more important. Paul and Rose will talk further about the work the Fund is doing to continually improve and develop services for members.

Achieving all of this requires the best and brightest working hard for you within our member‑first culture.  Accordingly, the Board continues to prioritise the attraction, retention and development of talented colleagues who value working for a Fund that puts members first. I would therefore like to thank our global work force, who are answering the call to make AustralianSuper a truly exceptional Fund capable of delivering exceptional results for you.  Here I need to acknowledge the special role that our tireless Chief Executive, Paul Schroder, plays in the success of the Fund, and, of course, thank you all for being members of AustralianSuper and I look forward to answering your questions. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Don, for those opening remarks on the focus of the Board.  Our next speaker is AustralianSuper's Chief Executive, Paul Schroder.  Paul is responsible for the overall leadership and strategic direction of AustralianSuper.  He has been with the Fund for 18 years in a number of Executive roles, throughout which he has had a constant and unwavering focus on improving members' retirement outcomes. Following Paul's address, Rose Kerlin, Chief Member Officer, will speak in more detail on how we are prioritising improvements to the experience we provide to members.  To give you an overview of how the Fund has been delivering for you in the 12 months to 30 June and the focus for the future, please welcome Paul Schroder. 

PAUL SCHRODER:  Hello, everybody.  We really love doing this and we really hope you get something out of it.  It's a real privilege for us to be here with you as we mark 40 years since the Fund began back in 1985 and almost 20 years since we became AustralianSuper. This meeting is about your Fund.  It's about transparency and trust and our shared future.  Whether you're at the start of your career or juggling work and caring responsibilities or enjoying retirement, we're here to help you achieve your best financial position in retirement because, to us, super isn't just about numbers.  Numbers are important but it isn't just about numbers.  It's about people and it's about peace of mind.  It's about knowing your retirement savings are being well managed and you yourself feeling confident about what's ahead.

I'm going to touch briefly on our Financial Year 2025, its performance, I'm going to cover returns, fees and net benefit, and then spend some time discussing our 2035 Strategy and business plan.  I'm especially looking forward to answering your questions later in the session. 

This year has been a significant one and it's represented a number of challenges to many people.  Consumer sentiment is better than it has been in the last four years but it's only just moved into positive territory.  On top of that, investment markets, their volatility and global politics have all tested confidence.  So let's talk about what we've delivered in the face of that. 

In the last financial year, the Balanced Investment Option returned 9.52% for members with Super accounts and 10.41% for members with a Choice Income pension account.  You can see from the chart, which I hope is on your screens at home, that coming out of the COVID period, the last three years, they've delivered a pretty consistent performance.  Philippa and Mark will talk in more detail about investment performance but I want to highlight that, despite all of the ups and downs and the various pressures and all the newspaper headlines, over the last 10 years the Balanced option has returned on average, each year, about 8% for Super accounts and a little bit over 8.5% for Choice Income accounts.  So all that movement, all that worry, and 8.5, and both of those returns are ranked in the top 10 against similar types of investment options.

Investment returns are really important but, along with investment returns, we've kept admin fees low so more of your money stays invested for your future.  At the end of June, our admin fees for members, whether they had $50,000 in the Balanced option or $100,000 in the Balanced option or $250,000, those fees were less than half the average of similar funds, so focus on investment fees but make sure we're keeping really good, strong eye on costs.  Investment returns, less fees and costs and taxes, that's what we call the net investment benefit.  The money in, less the money out is the net investment benefit, and it's what we strive ‑ all of us, everyone you see on this screen tonight, that's all they're striving to do for you every single day.  It's what gets added to your super. 

Let's just expand on this a little.  If we look at the last 15 years, I've got this chart, and if you were a member who started with a $50,000 balance and you earned a wage of about $50,000 a year, noting that they're both good numbers, big numbers, and you received a Superannuation Guarantee contribution for each of those 15 years, well, that person ‑ their super over that period would have earned $185,000.  Now, that's the orange bar.  That's $185,000 on top of your initial $50,000, plus the contributions that you've made. Now, have a look at the chart there.  That's about $23,000 more than the average super fund and about $45,000 better than the poorest‑performing fund. Now, that chart and many others, but that chart, really highlights the benefits of compounding interest, where your earnings stay invested and they get reinvested and they earn as well, and they benefit from relative long‑term investment performance. 

So let's just think about an example of net benefit as it relates to retirement, and maybe this I'm about to show you would surprise you.  It might just surprise you because you retire with a slab of money and then you think, "What's going to happen?". Well, let's do this.  Imagine you're 75 ‑ some of you watching might be ‑ and you retired 10 years ago and you opened an AustralianSuper Choice Income pension account and you opened it with a really nice balance, a big balance, of $300,000.  That's the orange, $300,000.  And every year you received an income; that is, you paid yourself what was the equivalent of 6%, and that sort of averages out to about $20,100 each year, or about $200,000 over the 10 years.  So have a look at that.  Orange: $300,000 in.  You paid yourself $200,000, or $201,000.  Now, after that 10 years of paying yourself $200,000, guess what? With all those things that I just described, your balance is actually bigger, so you'd have more money than when you started 10 years ago, despite having paid yourself $200,000 over that time.  Now, to many of you, that will be immediately obvious, but it's a big deal: start with a slab of money, pay yourself a slab of money, and end up with a bigger slab of money. 

Now, this increase is explained by investment earnings, less fees, of over $280,000 that would have been added to your account over that time.  Now, let's have a look at the difference that would make compared to, say, an average fund. This slide here shows AustralianSuper and shows the average fund.  So AustralianSuper, with the $300,000, would have earned $280,300 or thereabouts.  The average super fund: $222,000.  So this next set of columns shows you that you could pay yourself more, 6% would be more, 6% of $280,000 is more than 6% of $222,000.  So you can get to pay yourself more, $20,100, and guess what? You start with more, you pay yourself more and you end up with more. I reckon that's the magic of compound interest combined with relative investment outperformance year on year on year.  So you would have received about $1,600 more a year, your account balance would be about $40,000 higher, and so all other things being equal, if you're in a better‑performing fund over the long term, you earn more, you pay yourself more and you have a bigger balance so your money lasts longer.  That's why it's so important.  And as important as this is, even if you're retired, its an also important then.  So it's not just in your accumulation phase; it's also when you're retired you can be making more money. 

So I've talked a bit about the importance of investment performance and lower fees, but I reassure you also that when it comes to low admin fees ‑ just let me put this in context.  We want to make you the most money; we want to cost you the least money; but we don't want to cost you the least money in such a way that we can't get the balance right between proper charges, providing the services you need today, as well as making sure we're putting in place the things so we can deliver the services and guidance and help and advice that you're going to need in the future.  So throughout the year, we've continued to invest in ways to transform how we support you.  We are listening and we are acting.  Around here, we say: every time we get a certain or a complaint or a comment, we take that as an opportunity to learn and to improve.  We've improved and streamlined services.  We've improved processing times.  We've introduced new technology to strengthen member account security. We also know that you benefit from guidance and advice about your super, and last year we enhanced all of those education guidance tools, which were accessed by 2.2 million Australians.  You'll hear more from Rose shortly about the changes that we're making to meet your needs and to make it easier for you to engage with your super because, after all, it's your money. 

As I said earlier, super is more than just about numbers; it's about people like you tonight or today or whenever you're watching this, and it's about confidence. It's about serving you today and growing your retirement savings over the long term. 

I'd like to spend just a little bit of time talking about our 10‑year strategy. But before I do that, let me just share two stories.  The first is about Claudia.  Claudia is 17 and she recently started working at her local bakery.  I asked her about what sort of roles were the most popular roles and I won't get into that now, but when I chatted to Claudia, she told me that she doesn't really think very much about her retirement, and perhaps that's no great surprise because she's young, but she's a member of AustralianSuper and how's this? She's a member of AustralianSuper and she could easily be a member into the next century.  That's how we've got to think.  We've got to think about how to make the Fund strong and serve you today, in the next decade and in the next century. Claudia is one of nearly 400,000 members who joined AustralianSuper last year.  400,000. And almost half of them were under 30.

Then there's Bachir, just a terrific guy who's a security guard, and he said to me recently, "I've been a member of AustralianSuper for nearly 25 years".  Now, those stories and those people and those members, they remind us that super is always about people.  It's about helping every member ‑ you, your family, those members, across every generation and to help them feel more secure about their future.

Now, I want to just quickly take you forward to 2035.  Some people might say, "2035? That's a long time away", but actually if you look back to 2015, Michelle Payne won the Melbourne Cup.  That's 2015.  That doesn't feel like that long ago.  So when you think about 2035, you've got to think it's not as far away as you think.  And as Don just mentioned, we expect to manage over $1 trillion for more than five million members, including one million who have a retirement account.  Claudia will have finished her vet degree, provided she did her homework, and perhaps looking to be buying a home or starting a family.  Bachir might be one of the nearly 2.5 million Australians who are likely to retire in the next 10 years.  So our 10‑year strategy for helping you, it's bold and it's entirely member‑focused.  You can see on the chart the pillars of our strategy and they reflect on focus on delivering for you the best net returns we can, the service that you expect, the right guidance to help you make confident decisions and to feel good about your super and your retirement.

To achieve this strategy, we've identified three important things to address over the next three years.  One is to expand our world‑class investment business globally because in 10 years' time, we expect to be one of the 10 largest pension funds in the world. We need to ensure that all of our systems and processes, capability and risk management are constantly attuned to make the most of this growth.  We need to have the best strategy, the brightest people and to be agile to make the most money we can for you, for Claudia and Bachir, and for every member ‑ all 3.6 million today but five million in the future. So that means we will be investing more money globally to access the best investment opportunities for you, and we will always be a very large investor in Australia.  We'll be investing more in what we call unlisted assets, such as roads and airports and property, and we'll be constantly evaluating and evolving how we invest your savings to make sure we maximise your long‑term returns, and Philippa and Mark will both be talking about our future plans shortly.

The second key area is to deliver world‑class member service and guidance.  Members ‑ that is you ‑ are the heart of everything we do and we want every interaction you have with us to be simple, easy and empathetic.  We aim to ensure every experience is built around your needs and is also technologically enabled, where you can interact with us and your own retirement savings securely when you want to and how you choose. Consequently, we're providing more online services, tools and education, and we're making them easier to access and to use. We're providing greater support during those times where members may need extra help, and that happens in the super fund.  Sometimes people call on us when they really need help and they really need empathy, and we're here for you.  We're investing in the technology and the training we need to enable teams to provide the services you need when you need them.  Rose will talk to some of our future plans next.

The third and really important area is ensuring everything that we do is underpinned by a culture that effectively manages the risks and the opportunities. For those of you who were online last year, last year I mentioned that we were working to deepen and mature our risk management frameworks and that we were working with one of the world's leading risk management consultancies and the regulator, APRA, to make this happen.  I'm really pleased to say that this work has been progressing really well and we place risk at the centre of how every decision is made: strategy and risk absolutely connected.  And we use that thinking of having risk at the centre of all of our thinking in every part of the Fund.  We're designing and implementing our risk management framework in a way that positively influences mindsets and colleague behaviour.  You can find out more about how we approach managing risk in our Annual Report. 

Over the next 10 years, more members will join the Fund and there will be a lot more challenges and great opportunities to create value for you. We're excited and I'm excited about the future and we're ambitious about what we can achieve for you. Whether you're just starting work or thinking of finishing or you've left it behind sometime ago, we want you to feel confident about your retirement.

There are two other important topics I'd like to talk with you about just before I finish. One is responsible investing and the other is advocacy. I'm hoping you can see a slide about responsible investing and ESG and stewardship. We deeply believe that companies that effectively manage financially material Environmental, Social and Governance, ESG, those issues, we believe those companies are much more likely to provide better investment returns.  In our view, being a responsible investor means actively considering ESG issues with the aim of creating better, long‑term financial outcomes for you.  So we only think about ESG through that lens.

Our approach, as you can see on the slide, has three pillars: integration, stewardship and advocacy.  Integration refers to how we consider ESG risk and opportunities before we decide to invest in any asset classes and companies. Once we own an asset, we use the rights and responsibilities we have to seek effective management of ESG issues that we believe can impact investment value. From time to time, we'll engage with policy makers and regulators, either ourselves or with others or through investor networks, to make sure that our voice can be properly heard, and we do that to advocate for ESG‑related system settings that support investment value creation.

As you can see on the other side of the slide, we've identified nine priority ESG issues that provide a starting point for our analysis.  Of course, we may also consider other issues for different companies and for different sectors.

Just to speak briefly about advocacy more broadly, we're advocating for reforms that make super more inclusive, more fair and more sustainable for every Australian now and well into the future.  In the past year we've seen some key changes: super on paid parental leave, and that will help reduce the gap in retirement savings between men and women because women still have balances much lower than men, and that's an unacceptable situation. The final super guarantee increases move from 11.5% to 12%.  Now, it's a small change on paper but will make a big difference over the long term, especially for younger people, who will receive that rate over their working life. PayDay super reforms ‑ they have recently been passed, and we believe being paid your super when you are paid your wage will help address the enormous amount of super that many workers miss out on.  It could be up to $5 billion every year. In addition to those changes, changes are being considered to the tax rebate for low‑income earners.  If those proposed changes are approved, this could benefit almost 365,000 AustralianSuper members. It's a reform we've been pushing for for a very long time. 

Looking forward, we're focused on reforms to help make the retirement phase of the retirement system more flexible and easier for you. We're continuing to work with government, regulators and the rest of the industry to make the system evolve to meet your needs; that is, to improve your financial position in retirement, to make super and retirement simpler and better, not just for today but for decades to come.

I'll very shortly hand over to Rose Kerlin, your Chief Member Officer, who will talk about the work we've been doing to provide you with high‑value service, support and guidance now and into the future, but before I do, I really want to thank each of you again for joining us to hear more about the Fund in its 40th year.  Throughout our time, our focus has been, and will continue to be, to put members ‑ that is, you ‑ first, always. Here's Rose.

ROSE KERLIN: Thanks, Paul.  I'm delighted to be here to provide an update on how we are helping members make the most of their super and retirement. Over the last year, we have significantly uplifted our processes and services to make it easier for you to interact with your super online and over the phone for the moments that matter to you.  Your feedback is extremely valuable for driving the changes we need to make for you, so please keep it coming. 

As you can see, there are so many ways members like to stay connected, up‑to‑date and involved with their super. Our online and digital channels continue to grow, and now over 71% of members have an online account. We have simplified the process when making a death benefit claim, including the introduction of a non‑lapsing binding nomination, which doesn't expire after three years.  So what this means is members only need nominate their beneficiaries once, removing complexity from the claim process, allowing claims to be paid faster.  I'd encourage you to consider making a non‑lapsing binding death benefit nomination if it's right for you.

We also now switch our members' account balance to the Cash investment option and switch all off fees once we are informed of their death to protect their account from market volatility. Our Bereavement Centre is consistently exceeding our target of 70% of death claims being processed within four months of receiving the completed claim form. We've recently established a new team who will be managing Terminal Illness Claims and supporting members and their families during some of life's most challenging moments. 

Now on to digital services.  We continue to enhance these services, including our huge range of digital tools and calculators, to make retirement planning easier.  We've been transforming our digital insurance cover and claims experience.  Via the TAL Connect platform, members can start and update insurance cover and lodge and manage claims, making it a more secure and easier experience. We have completed our transition to our new contact centre, which will provide members with a greater level of service and support over the phone, leading to greater levels of customer satisfaction and call resolution.  As we have been going through this transition, some of our wait times have been longer than acceptable. We have been working hard to resolve this issue by recruiting and training more staff and expanding our contact centre sites from Brisbane and Townsville to now include an additional site in Ballarat.

We know that keeping your money and data safe is extremely important to you, and this is an ongoing priority for the Fund.  We now have multi‑factor authentication, or MFA, enabled across our digital platforms.  Not only does it provide an extra layer of security, but members are telling us it's easier to log in using MFA.  We continuously seek to strengthen our cybersecurity measures and monitoring to better detect and respond to emerging threats. 

Over the last year, we have also introduced several new product enhancements.  Members are now able to choose to retain their insurance cover, even if their super account becomes inactive.  We've also made changes to our Socially Aware product based on your feedback and we've reviewed the asset allocation and screening criteria that apply to better meet members' expectations.  And we've lowered the minimum initial balance on Choice Income and Transition to Retirement Accounts to $10,000 to ensure that more members can access regular income and benefit from tax‑free returns in retirement.

As Paul mentioned earlier, looking forward over the next 10 years, our priority is providing world‑class member service and personalised guidance to members. We've started on our journey by investing in leading data and technology to deliver contemporary digital‑first guidance and advice, enabling us to provide you with the guidance you need on your path to retirement.  Part of this will be a new Guidance Centre providing simple advice delivered in a digital‑first way with support from phone‑based advisers.  We will also continue to deliver new tools and calculators to support members transitioning to retirement and projecting super balances.

For retiring and retired members, we will deliver a new lifetime income product, more income draw‑down options and enhanced retirement default settings for easier account set‑up that's tailored to different needs.  This will help guide members to the right mix of products, providing the confidence to spend by knowing their income could last for life.  We're also working hard to make it easier for members to transition to a retirement account and we're currently enhancing the process to withdraw super when you're eligible to make it simpler and easier.  We're improving Member Direct, a self‑managed investment option, to lower some fees so many members will pay less for brokerage and portfolio administration.  We're adding research on Exchange‑Traded Funds, ETFs, giving members more information to help with investment choices.  Menu changes and better cash transfer processes will make things easier and more user friendly. We're committed to making your experience with us seamless, timely and personalised.  Thank you for being a member.  We greatly appreciate your feedback so we can continue to help you make the most of your super and retirement.

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Paul and Rose, for sharing how the Fund continues to drive our agenda of being a world‑class organisation for members. I'm now pleased to introduce the Chair of the Investment Committee, Philippa Kelly, to provide an investment overview.  Philippa is an Independent Director and has more than 25 years experience in property, investment management and finance, with a background in law and investment banking.  In addition to her AustralianSuper membership, Philippa is a Director of Hub Australia, River Capital and oOh!media. We are fortunate to have Philippa's breadth of knowledge and experience at both the Board and the Investment Committee.  Following Philippa's address, Mark Delaney, AustralianSuper's Chief Investment Officer and Deputy Chief Executive, will provide a detailed look at our investment performance in the last financial year as well as the investment outlook and strategy going forward.  Welcome, Philippa Kelly. 

PHILIPPA KELLY: Thank you, Paula.  And good evening, everyone. There are three themes I'd like to talk to tonight: change, growth and diversification, specifically how we are responding to change and positioning the portfolio and investing platforms for what we believe will deliver the strong, long‑term returns for your super savings.

As investors, we know change is a constant, but never has it been so pronounced or occurred at such a rapid pace.  Globally, demographic shifts, geopolitical tensions and technology innovation are having a profound effect.  Some of these changes were underway before the pandemic and then fast‑tracked by it. Others, like the rise of AI, are more recent and have all the hallmarks of transforming almost every aspect of our lives.  For governments, companies and superannuation funds, the need to embrace change has never been more acute, and at AustralianSuper, we're doing exactly that, guided by our purpose, which is to help you achieve the best financial outcomes we can for your retirement.  Our purpose drives the investment decisions we make every day, whether your retirement is today, in 10 years or even 50 years time.

The Fund Investment Committee has an important role in overseeing, challenging and supporting the Investment team's strategies to ensure we deliver the best performance outcomes. Our investment strategies reflect the changing market environment we're seeing and we're adapting internally as we continue to grow. While our more recent relative investment performance has not quite delivered the result we'd like, we are making active changes in looking to the future. We've already put in place the building blocks that we believe will deliver the strong, long‑term returns for members and it's important that we continue to respond and evolve as the Fund keeps growing.

The second thing I would like to talk about is growth and how we use our size for your benefit. Members' retirement savings total around $400 billion today, as Paul has already mentioned, and this means two things: first, our scale enables us to take a long‑term view on key investments.  One example is that it's been two years since we voted against the proposed buy‑out of Origin Energy. By choosing not to sell, this decision alone has generated more than $1 billion in gross additional value for members, and that number is based on Origin's recent share price. Secondly, this size means members can invest in assets that you may not otherwise have the opportunity to do directly.  That may be by investing into some of the global equities that we all hear about, like Nvidia or Meta, or some of the world's most prominent infrastructure assets, such as Port Botany in Sydney, Peel Ports in the UK and our Australian housing developer Assemble.  By continuing to grow our investments here in Australia and globally, you can be assured that for you as members, you can invest like some of the wealthiest people on the planet.

Finally, I'll touch on why we invest not only in Australia but also offshore and across different asset classes, bringing the benefits of diversification. AustralianSuper is a very large investor in Australia, with more than $175 billion of your savings invested here.  This makes up around 45% of our total portfolio and includes more than $135 billion in Australian public markets, which includes listed equities, fixed income like Australian Government bonds, and cash. Through our venture capital and small‑cap strategies, we've also invested more than $2.5 billion in emerging Australian companies to support home‑grown innovation.

We're already the single largest investor on the Australian Securities Exchange.  However, this market accounts for less than 2% of all global equities.  To get the best returns for you, we need to build out and diversify our portfolio, and this means not putting all your super in one place. By investing across asset classes, industries and geographies, we aim to reduce our overall risk and volatility to deliver more consistent returns and cushion the impact of any market downturns.

As we look around the world, we continue to see future investment opportunities in the United States.  We have around a third of our portfolio invested in North America and it remains an important part of the portfolio. We're also looking to continue to grow our EU exposure through additional private asset investments.  So, regardless of geography, you can be confident that we are also applying best‑practice valuation governance to our private market investments. This includes both regular and independent valuations across the portfolio.  This year, we've repositioned the International Equities portfolio and these changes have begun to have a positive impact on members' returns, as Mark will speak to shortly.

But before I hand over to Mark, I want to talk about the future and what that might mean for you as members.  It's clear that the major drivers of growth, including technology and the development of AI, will continue. The pace of change is ongoing and will also bring a world with greater volatility, likely more inflation pressure and higher interest rates than we've seen over the past decade. We're also mindful of equity market valuations, which, at current highs, are above long‑term averages. So equities may continue to do well but, as valuations rise, we need to be mindful that there may be a period of weaker returns.  This is exactly why we have a diversified investment portfolio where our unlisted assets provide a level of stability to returns, and by actively managing the portfolio, we consider intrinsic drivers of value in each asset class and how they perform through investment cycles. 

We know the next decade won't look the same as the last.  Change is inevitable, but at AustralianSuper, we're ready for it. Our aspiration is clear: to be a world‑class funds manager investing within Australia and globally on your behalf.  Thank you for continuing to entrust us with your retirement savings.  And, in closing, I'd also like to thank my fellow Directors and Committee members, as well as our Investment and Member teams, for their continued efforts.  Thank you.

MARK DELANEY: Thank you, Philippa. Hi, everybody.  I'm Mark Delaney. I'm the Chief Investment Officer at AustralianSuper. At the very outset, I'd like to say thank you very much for giving the opportunity to manage your retirement savings.  It's a great privilege to look after 3.6 million Australians' retirement savings and grow their balances in a way which is really sustainable.  We set out each day to really grow your balances so you can have a much better retirement. I'll talk about today how we invest your money, including investment performance, how we're managing the portfolio, and our long‑run outlook and strategy.

Let's go straight to returns.  Paul has talked about this a little bit.  These are the one‑year returns, five‑year returns and 10‑year returns and 15‑year returns, et cetera, for super, which is the accumulation option, which most people had before retirement, and the Choice Income option, which is what people have in their retirement. You'll note that the blue bar, the Choice Incomes, are bigger than the bars for super.  That's because Choice Income pays no tax, so automatically it has a higher return. 

Now, people mentioned earlier that it's 40 years since the Balanced Plan has been established.  Over that period, since 1985, it's delivered an annual return of 9.27%.  That's a fantastic outcome. Last year, the Balanced Plan earned 9.52% and 10.4% for the Choice Income.  This solid result was not without its challenges, if you reflect back on last year. There were changes in US trade policy, which I'll talk about a bit more; escalations in global conflict ‑ do you remember the Australian elections? ‑ and greater uncertainty for investors. All in all, it was a really strong year and I'll discuss why in the next slide.

But before we get there, let's have a look at returns for the other options.  Not everybody's invested in the Balanced option.  Quite a number of you are invested in other options, so let's have a look at how they went.  Top of the pops last year was the Indexed Diversified option, which earned close to 12%.  High Growth was second, earning 10.6%; Socially Aware earning 10.2%; and Conservative Balanced 8.6%; and Stable still a very solid 7.3%.  What you see from this is that those options which were higher risk options, i.e., those who had more shares, earnt more than those who were more diversified and more conservative options. 

Indexed Diversified has done so well for two reasons.  The first one is that it has a high allocation to Listed Equities, and Listed Equities performed very strongly, and, secondly, it's a fully indexed option.  That means it doesn't have any active management. In the last couple of years, unlisted assets and active management have under‑performed, and that's been an impact upon our performance, but I'll talk about that a bit later. More importantly, all these PreMixed options have outperformed their investment objectives over the last decade.

Let's go on to having a look at each of the different asset classes. In this graph here, the blue bar at the bottom, running across the bottom, with 32, 25, 3, 14, that's the size of the allocation to International Shares, for example, in the Balanced Plan. The orange bars reflect the returns in the last year for the different asset classes. Top of the pops were International Equities, earning 15.6%.  Second came Australian Shares, earning 13.6%.  Critically, those two asset classes make up over half the Balanced Plan, so most of your money was invested in the highest‑returning asset classes.  That's what drove the 9.5% return.

It was another year when tech‑related businesses dominated.  AI and digital mattered a lot.  Over the past two years, we have discussed how AI is transforming the economy.  It continues to be a big factor, as we discussed, driving member returns. Nvidia is now the biggest company in the world.  It makes computer chips for large‑language models, i.e., AI models.  Very few had heard of it five years ago but now it's the biggest company in the world.  Other companies that provide computer power for AI, like Microsoft, have also done really well.  That's why International Equities, and particularly US Equities, have done so well.  Let's have a look at three or four stocks.  In International Equities, Nvidia was up 30% in the last year, Microsoft up 14%, and Broadcom, another tech stock, up 76%.  Really big returns.

Let's go across to Australian shares, and what you find is that Commonwealth Bank was up 50% and Westpac was up 31%.  So in Australia, it wasn't tech that dominated.  It was a big rally in bank shares.  The banking sector was the best‑performing sector.  You've heard a lot about the Commonwealth Bank.  It's been called the most expensive best bank in the world because the stock is so highly priced.  Our investment in Commonwealth Bank, which we've had over the medium and long term, has done really well, but more recently we determined that the stock had been overvalued, so we sold some of it and rotated back into resources and away from expensive stocks.  We'll keep on doing that, looking for opportunities to sell positions at high prices if we think they've become overvalued.

Credit earnt 9.5%.  Credit is essentially non‑bank lending to corporates.  This asset class has benefitted from high interest rates over the last few years and done really well.  Infrastructure earned just over 6.5%.  It's our bigger allocation in the private market portfolio, and the investments in airports and seaports generated strong returns again this year.  But not all the areas of the portfolio performed that well, and we'll discuss that when we discuss our relative performance. 

Fixed interest and cash ‑ well, the good news is that both those two asset classes saw much higher returns this year than in previous years, benefitting from the higher interest rates.  This pushed up the return of defensive options like the Conservative Balanced and the Stable option. Private Equity returns were still in the doldrums ‑ hard to believe as, historically, this is one of the highest‑returning asset classes.  It was impacted by the slower exit environment, i.e., the ability to sell these Private Equity businesses, as well as fewer Initial Public Offerings.  And the property sector continued to face headwinds.  It was the only asset class that detracted last year and the key factors were higher interest rates impacting upon valuations and factors like people working from home.  But it's only a relatively small part of the portfolio. 

Now, let's have a look at how these asset classes have performed over the longer term. Again, the orange is the five‑year numbers and the blue is the 10‑year numbers.  The first thing that really stands out about this is that Equities have been the strongest‑performing asset classes ‑ both Australian and International Shares, and Private Equity.  And Unlisted Infrastructure, despite its modest return last year, has also been a really strong performer over the long term.

If you scoot to the right‑hand side of the picture, you see that unlisted property has been a very poor performer for close on a decade now.  It's a very long time, as it's struggled with structural adjustment, plus high interest rates.  The key thing in building your portfolio is to have the bulk of your money invested in the left‑hand part of this graph and less in the right‑hand part of the graph. A portfolio, as I said, geared around Listed Equities has done well and generated the greatest returns over that 10‑year period. 

Let's have a look at relative investment performance.  This has been a very frustrating experience. As you can see from the graph, the orange is AustralianSuper's performance and the blue is the median, or the average, superannuation fund.  You can see over the last year, it was under the median performance and reflects not where we want our performance to be.  It's the third year in a row we have been a little bit under the median and only the fourth time since AustralianSuper was created in 2006.  So I'll try to explain that.  There's a few factors behind it.  The first one is that active managers have struggled to perform in the past few years as the US equity market became significantly more concentrated. That means the stocks became bigger and only a few stocks went up.  For example, fewer than one in three US companies outperformed the equity market over the last three years and that means the majority of US stocks have underperformed. These kind of concentrated equity market cycles often coincide with the introduction of new technology and happen from time to time.  Eventually, they unwind.  The second thing is our unlisted assets have performed relatively poorly, especially compared to their listed counterparts. They have been impacted by the rising interest rates and, in some cases, poor business plan execution. 

Over the long term ‑ this is the key point ‑ our portfolio with active management and significant investments in unlisted assets has done well for members due to its strong diversification. This diversification is very important in how you construct the portfolio.  Nevertheless, we could have done better, even in a strong year like last year.  Successful investing is a job of continuous improvement and we constantly need to re‑evaluate and uplift how we invest. 

So what are we actually doing? Well, we've made changes in the areas of the portfolio which have underperformed: International Equities, which was talked about previously, we have restructured the manager line‑up, introduced three new fundamental strategies, and added a number of senior investors.  The aim is to get more value‑add for members.  In our unlisted portfolios, we have carefully examined what's not working and taken the action where required.  These changes will make us better.

Now, super‑saving and building retirement balances is a very long‑run task. It takes decades to build a retirement balance, a decent one, not just a few years.  So let's have a look at how we're going in the long term.  This is what I call the 'Show me the money' graph because we've had lots of talk about percentages and different markets and whatever, but what does it really mean for you in terms of dollars invested, your money? So this is my favourite graph because it's got the money on it. 

So if you invested $100,000 in the Balanced Plan 20 years ago, June 2005, it would be worth $434,000 now. You've done nothing but put the money in the Balanced Plan 20 years ago, gone to Bali and come back 20 years later and it's now worth $434,000.  What a great decision that is. How has it gone up so much if you haven't put any more money in? It's what we like to say is the power of compounding. That means things getting bigger over time. With nearly 8% earnings growth, compounding those over the 20 years, you've more than quadrupled your money.  It's just a fantastic outcome.  It's really what the super system set out to do: make real gains and real balances for people for their retirement income. 

The other thing to note and that I love about this is how smooth the journey has been.  Sure, there's been a couple of jagged moments but, by and large, it's been pretty smooth over the whole 20‑year period.  If you have a look at 2007/2008, you can see there was a little down dip there where the Global Financial Crisis occurred and there was another drop around 2020 when COVID hit and the sharemarket fell sharply.  But, realistically, you look at that and you think: were they such a big deal? It hasn't really had a big impact on the long run.  This is a really key point.  Short‑term events don't matter much in the long run.  As long as you stay the course, your money has compounded significantly.  There's an old adage with investing, and that is: it's not about timing the markets, buying and selling; it's about how much time you have in the markets, allowing compounding to work for you. 

Let's have a bit more of a detailed look at last year.  This actually is a bit longer than last year.  It covers from the start of last financial year, 1 July 2024, and goes right up until a couple of days ago, 14 November.  Starting out at zero, the Balanced Plan has earned over that period 13.87%.  The second thing to note is it's a strong upward trend, so it's basically grown over the whole period, driven by AI, as we've talked about, and also interest rate cuts from central banks.  But when you have a look at that, the other thing that stands out is this big, jagged downturn in February, March, April this year.  That volatility is caused by the tariffs.  The tariff announcements wiped off 20% of global equities in that period between February and April.  20%. The Balanced Plan only fell 8% over the same period.  That's the benefit of a diversified portfolio: a 20% declining sharemarket only transferred through to an 8% decline in the Balanced Plan.  The interplay between global politics, new tech adoption and high‑priced equity markets means that this volatility is likely to continue over the next year or two.

Another thing about a 20% decline in the equity market is it occurs every two or three years, so it's not unusual, but if you have a look at the graph, it can be brought back pretty quickly. Now, the key thing about that is staying the course.  If you'd sold out of the Balanced Plan and said, "Oh, look, I can't take the sharemarket falling" at the end of March, early April, your returns will be 10%, roughly, worse off.  10%.  And that's in less than a year.  It's an enormous difference. More recently, we've entered a period of a bit more volatility in the equity market, as you can see in the last part of that graph.

Now, let's look ahead a little bit.  I'm curious if anybody recognises this slide from last year. Well, it's the same slide as last year, for those of you who guessed.  Apologies for that.  But the themes are still relevant.  Let's have a look at the global outlook, the first of these columns here.  It's very difficult to predict the future but, nevertheless, investing is only about the future.  We believe global economies will continue to expand over the short‑to‑medium term.  Tariffs have slowed economies in 2025, this year, but that impact will pass next year, plus the stimulus put in place in the last 12 months or so will keep economies ticking along nicely. 

Central Bank policy: interest rates have been higher for the past few years.  Just ask anybody who has a mortgage.  They'll know that.  And the cost of living has also been very high.  The good news is we've seen interest rates fall three times in Australia in the last year and there have been similar cuts in the US.  So we're well past the peak of interest rates, and that policy stimulus will kick through to the economy. 

When we have a look at the asset class of digitalisation and AI, US stocks are benefitting from the optimism around AI, plus falling interest rates, and falling interest rates was a key factor in the Australian Equity market peak performance.  However, the optimism around AI is translating through to high equity valuations.  Unlisted assets we think will benefit as interest rates fall, particularly Private Equity and property.

Now, given how big AI is, I thought I might spend a minute or two talking about AI.  Now, you might wonder what this next slide is.  Well, I was looking at the paper this morning and I couldn't believe it but the back page and the front page of the paper had big ads about AI, so I just took one of those and put them in the presentation. 'Pull Forward the Future with Generative AI', the Chief Technology Officer from Canva, and the one on the back of the paper was from Amazon Web Services.  It's on the front and the back of the paper.  AI is a big news story.

Last year I said if you don't own a digital business, you soon won't have a business.  It hasn't been that dramatic yet but AI is a big factor driving global businesses and equity markets.  The ongoing tech boom is beginning to transform how many things are done.  What we do know from history is that people tend to overestimate the impact of these tech changes in the short term and underestimate them in the longer term.  There's a risk this could happen with AI.  You've heard more talk of an AI bubble recently.  Tech stocks have risen so much in recent years and some are worrying that they might be overpriced. The companies themselves have spent billions and billions, hundreds of billions, of dollars on AI and building out computers to service AI, with the promise that it's going to generate more growth and more earnings.  But it's good to see AI in the context of these technology waves over history, like the Industrial Revolution, the rise of the automobile, electrification and the radio, adoption of the internet and smartphones ‑ they've all led to extraordinary gains in share prices.  Some of those have proved more durable than others.

So how do we navigate our way forward through this? We're looking at a few things.  We're looking at exceptional gains in share prices as a warning sign, extraordinary valuations and extreme leverage. Tech returns have been strong and valuations are high but neither of them are extreme levels like you saw in the 1990s or during the Japanese bubble. That's good news.

One thing getting a lot of attention is that tech companies have started to finance more of their expansion by issuing debt, borrowing money, to put this in place. But the debt levels themselves are still relatively low compared to the profitability of these enormously profitable companies.  Rising interest rates is also a factor because, typically, they play a role in bursting a bubble like popping a balloon because of the strain it puts on companies.  Most central banks are cutting rates or leaving them unchanged at the current time, so we don't think that's a factor.  So, all in all, we don't believe we've reached the point of an AI bubble yet.  If you reach that point, when we believe it's a bubble, we'll expect to reduce our exposure to International Equities and take a more defensive positioning.  In the meantime, we've been diversifying away from the AI theme, investing in other asset classes like listed infrastructure and unlisted markets, which are less sensitive to AI.

So, in summary, we've grown ‑ we haven't grown ‑ you've grown assets in the Fund to over $400 billion.  It's a great achievement to all of you, so thank you.  That makes AustralianSuper one of Australia's largest investors of retirement savings, and that's a great privilege. Importantly, we invest over $175 billion in Australia, and that makes you, the AustralianSuper member, a very significant investor and supporter of our local economy.  Your investment means more support for Australian businesses, jobs and the communities.

But, as Philippa pointed out, Australia only makes up 2% of global investment markets, so we need to invest globally to give you access to the best investment opportunities around the world, stocks like Nvidia, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, access to really high‑quality unlisted opportunities Philippa talked about, no matter where they're located.  A global portfolio using Australia as the base is the best portfolio.  To do this, we have continued to build out our teams in the key markets overseas.  We were the first industry super fund to open global offices over a decade ago and now we have teams of experts based in the US, the UK and Beijing to better manage your money in the future. 

I would like to thank the Board, the Investment Committee and all our colleagues for enabling us to do what we do and what we're most passionate about; that is, investing your super.  And, most importantly, I would like to thank each of you, the 3.6 million members, for putting your trust in us.  You don't have to do that.  You could pick somebody else.  So we appreciate your trust and we intend to repay it.  We remain committed as ever to achieving the best financial position for you in retirement.  Thank you. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Philippa and Mark, for those insights into our investment performance, the market outlook and our strategy to grow members' retirement savings over the decades to come. 

That concludes the formal presentations.  We will now proceed to the Live Question and Answer session.  If you would like to ask a question during this meeting, please note that it and our response will be made publicly available either at this meeting or in the Minutes of the Meeting.  If we can't answer all questions at this meeting, a response will be provided afterwards via the Minutes of this Meeting, which will be available on the AustralianSuper website. 

To protect your privacy, please do not include any personal information in the questions you submit to us as part of this meeting and note we cannot answer questions relating to your personal account or personal situation.  If you have a question like this, please don't hesitate to contact us via the website, contact centre or the AustralianSuper App.  To ask a question, click on the Q&A button at the right of your screen and type your question into the questions box.  Our first question is for AustralianSuper Chair, Don Russell: as the Fund gets bigger, how does the Board stay focused on members? Don?

DR DON RUSSELL: Well, I think this is a really key issue and the Board takes it very seriously.  One of the unique aspects of the Fund is that we have consistently put members first and, as institutions go, that is an unusual way of organising the services that we provide to people.  But the Board and the Directors are very conscious that it's very easy for institutions to evolve over time, even well‑meaning institutions, and what was previously member‑first can degrade over time to become, in effect, fund‑first.  So one of the great strengths of AustralianSuper is the fact that it operates under what is, in effect, a representative model for the Board.  We have equal employee and employer representatives on the Board and two Independent Directors.  I'm an Independent Director, as the Chair of the Fund, and you've heard from Philippa Kelly; Philippa is also an Independent Director as the Chair of the Investment Committee. Combined, we see as one of our chief responsibilities that we keep AustralianSuper focused on that simple proposition that we are here simply to look after the members and to deliver the best service that we can possibly do for them, and I think that is the part of the secret sauce.  We have the Fund anchored on that very simple proposition: that we exist for the best interests of the members. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Don, and thank you, Sam, for that great question.  We now have a question from Melanie for Chief Member Officer, Rose Kerlin:  what support is available for retirement planning, Rose?

ROSE KERLIN: Thank you for your question, Melanie.  We actually have a multi‑channel approach to support our members who are preparing for retirement.  The first thing that I would encourage anyone who's preparing for retirement to do is to go on to our website because there's a whole range of digital tools and calculators and educational resources that are available.  So start there. 

In particular for retirement, we have what's called 'The Elements of Retirement' and it's an interactive guide with anything that you might need, all of those questions we've already thought about, and we've got all of the answers in there for you, or you might care to watch a video or even listen to a podcast. 

Secondly, we also run workplace education sessions.  We do things like retirement planning seminars that you're able to come to, so you can look on the website and book yourself into one of those, or you might want to attend an interactive webinar.  The next thing is if you wanted to actually speak to, say, a personal adviser, they can give you information for simple topics on advice just by calling up our contact centre, and that's already included in your membership fee.  So any of those simple topics are already covered for you.  If you've got more comprehensive needs, you might want to come and see one of the Fund's advisers.  We also work with 4,100 externally registered advisers and they're all independent, they've been vetted by us, we've done due diligence, and they're able to help you with your more comprehensive needs.  So I hope that helps you, Melanie. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Rose.  Now we have a question from John for Chief Investment Officer, Mark Delaney: does the size of AustralianSuper influence its impact in the market? If AustralianSuper is looking to make an investment, does it affect market expectations and asset prices that would potentially have an impact on member returns? Mark?

MARK DELANEY: Good question, John.  You need to distinguish between international investments and Australian investments.  In international investments, we're very small.  The global equity market is huge globally.  The Australian Equity market is only 2% the size of the global one.  So we're a very small player in the global equity market and have no impact on global equity or property markets or fixed interest markets. 

Where we are big is in the Australian Equity market, where we're the largest single investor and run the largest single portfolio.  So we have to be careful about how we move around in the Australian Equity market.  But I don't believe it's had any impact upon returns.  When we compare the returns of our Australian Equity portfolio, it's one of the best performers in the marketplace, despite being so big.  So we need to be careful but it hasn't impacted upon returns to date.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Mark. We now have a question from Sharon for Head of ESG and Stewardship, Andrew Gray: how are you tracking progress towards your net zero commitment? Andrew?

ANDREW GRAY: Thanks, Paula, and thanks, Sharon, for the question.  So we do think it's important to track progress.  That's a key way that we're going to manage investment risk during the low‑carbon transition.  So at AustralianSuper, we've developed what we call 'the carbon tracker analysis', which basically monitors the emissions profile of the portfolio and the net zero commitments that the assets in that portfolio have made.  So I'm just going to quote a couple of numbers.  This is from June 2024, which is the latest available data that we have.  This covers Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions of the companies in the portfolio.  It's worth noting that the analysis so far ‑ we can cover 70% of the portfolio with this analysis.  But it's is really interesting to note that for the internally managed active Australian Equities portfolio, 87% of emissions for that portfolio are covered by the net zero commitments of assets in the portfolio, and for the internally managed International Active Equities portfolio, 90% of the emissions are covered by net zero commitments of companies in that portfolio.  So it's interesting to note that a very high proportion of the emissions, therefore, is currently covered by net zero commitments of the companies in the portfolio. So this is a key number that we'll continue to track to monitor progress on net zero. 

The final point I'd make actually on tracking progress is that we're entering into a really interesting period in terms of companies reporting on net zero.  So we're heading into a mandatory emissions reporting regime.  So over the next couple of years, companies will have to start reporting their emissions profile on a mandatory basis.  So we're actually really welcoming of that as a development in terms of our ability to track the portfolio's emissions because it will help with the information flows that we need to do.  And it's worth noting that AustralianSuper will be reporting under that regime from Financial Year 2027, so we'll be able to report to members under that from that financial year.  So thanks again, Sharon.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Andrew.  We now have a question from Jessica, and this question is for Investment Committee Chair, Philippa Kelly: what is the appetite for private markets and what do they do for member returns? Philippa?

PHILIPPA KELLY: Thank you, Jessica. I've spoken already about the benefits of diversification with private market investments and how they balance out the volatility of listed equities through different market cycles.  In terms of returns, historically, private market assets have generated higher returns than listed equities. So our appetite within the Fund is to have around 25% of the portfolio invested in these private market assets, and when I talk about that, I'm talking about infrastructure, private credit, property, private equity and venture capital. Finally, the nature of private market assets themselves also aligns really well with the long‑term horizons of superannuation.  Thank you. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Philippa.  We now have a question from Con: has the Federal Government accessed AustralianSuper funds to pay for projects? I'll ask Chief Executive, Paul Schroder, to answer this one. 

PAUL SCHRODER:  Thanks, Con.  I'm glad to say the answer is no.  The Federal Government has not accessed AustralianSuper members' funds to pay for projects and I really want to reassure people that I've been quite direct and quite deliberate about this.  Of course, it's Australian and it's super and it's yours.  It's your money and we won't be investing in anything that doesn't deliver a risk‑adjusted net return that justifies the risk that we're taking.  So, Con, I'm glad you asked me.  It's not just the Federal Government we need to think about.  We also need to think about State Governments and governments in other jurisdictions.  So I do try to make a point of reminding everybody, all politicians of all persuasions in all jurisdictions, that AustralianSuper will not be making investments that don't stack up and AustralianSuper won't be investing in things that don't make members of AustralianSuper the most money, risk‑adjusted, post‑tax and post‑fees, and I'm very pleased to say that the Federal Australian Government has not asked us to do so. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Paul.  We now have a question from Van: what kind of investments do we currently have in China?  I'll ask Head of Asset Allocation, Alistair Barker, to take this one.  Alistair?

ALISTAIR BARKER: Hi, Van.  Thank you for your question.  The overall exposure we have to investments in China in the Fund is about 0.5% of the overall fund asset, so it's comparatively small to the amount we have in Australia ‑ 45% ‑ and 33% in the US that both Philippa and Mark mentioned earlier.  Most of those investments are in publicly traded securities, so fixed income and equities, and very little of it is in private markets. Probably the more interesting point, Van, is that our largest exposure to China is, in fact, indirect, mainly through the Australian economy.  As many of you might know, China is Australia's largest trading partner and is a large buyer of a number of natural resources that we export.  Thank you.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Alistair. We now have a question from Elizabeth. It's a great question: how soon after reaching one's preservation age can a member access their superannuation? I'll ask Education Manager, Peter Treseder, to take this one.  Peter?

PETER TRESEDER: Hi, Elizabeth.  Thanks for your question.  Probably the most common question I get asked is accessing super.  It's a two‑part process.  First, you've got to reach your preservation age, which for most people now is 60, and you have to have ceased an employment arrangement after turning 60.  Once you turn 65, you can access your super, whether you're working or not.  So thanks for your question, Elizabeth. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Peter.  We now have a question from Brent: how does AustralianSuper ensure that members' funds are safe when placed into Private Credit investments? An important question.  I'll ask Chief Investment Officer, Mark Delaney, to answer this one. 

MARK DELANEY: Thanks, Brent.  We've got just a little under 3% of the Balanced Plan in credit, so it's not a big part of the portfolio, and the vast majority of that portfolio is managed by external managers.  The key thing is to make sure that the portfolio construction is sufficiently diversified both at the issuer level and at the individual security level and then there's a really appropriate due diligence done on the people they have been lending to to make sure they're not taking inappropriate lending risks.  It can't be foolproof but a structure of having a heavily diversified portfolio in a multi‑manager structure, using people who are very experienced at undertaking Private Credit lending, puts you in a pretty good place to think that the investments will be fairly solid. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Mark. We now have a question from Prudence. Prudence asks: is it possible to access financial advice once we are Choice Income account holders?  And I'll ask our General Manager, Retirement, Shane Hancock, to take this one. 

SHANE HANCOCK: Thanks, Prudence. That's a really good question and I'm sure a question that many of our members would have.  Rose talked earlier about all the guidance and advice services that are available to members.  Whether you're in superannuation accumulation stage or retirement, they're all available to you as a member.  In some cases, they're actually more important to you in retirement.  Throughout your retirement, things will change.  We're seeing more members return to the work force. As Paul mentioned earlier, also it's when your balances are larger.  So the short answer to the question is absolutely and I would encourage you and your families to reach out to the Fund for that assistance. Thank you. Paula? 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Shane.  Now a question from Jim: what is the Fund's attitude to calls to invest in increasing housing supply?  I'll ask Paul Schroder, Chief Executive, to answer this one. 

PAUL SCHRODER:  Thanks, Jim.  We're really worried about the cost of housing and the affordability of housing, especially for young people.  Just to give you an idea of how that's deteriorated over time, in the early '70s it would have cost a household about twice their household income to buy the average house.  In the late '90s, it would have cost the average household three times their income to buy the average house. And now it's 6.5 times income and, in some cities, 8‑and‑a‑bit times household income.  So you can see that is a really genuine problem, and any of you who have young people in your lives or people have had trouble getting into the housing market at any age will know that it's really, really hard to buy and to pay for a house.  So the idea, the issue, is really strongly in our minds and we do worry about it because having a safe and secure place to live is important for productivity and it's really important for having a safe and prosperous retirement as well.  But, as I said before, we don't invest in anything that doesn't make enough money for the members of the Fund. 

So really the housing issue is, as I think you said in your question, Jim, a housing supply issue.  We need to get many more houses of all types of descriptions, in all sorts of locations, built, and actually that's not really a financing problem; that's mostly an issue of regulation and freeing up planning and getting everybody aligned to building more housing, and probably it's going to require us to think differently about how we construct housing, manufactured housing and other things. 

So how do we feel about it? We think it's really important that there's an acceleration of housing supply because too many people can't afford to live in a house that they feel secure and safe in.  That's the central problem.  The central solution is supply.  It's quite likely we can play a role in that.  We do through an organisation called Assemble especially, something that we co‑own with Hesta, another great fund.  So we are building housing supply.  We do want to make sure that it meets all of our return hurdles for every other member, we won't do it if it doesn't make enough money, but we're really focused on it. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Paul. We now have a question from Kerry: what are the major risks concerning the Board over and above financial strength? I'll ask our Chair, Don Russell, to answer this question.  Don?

DR DON RUSSELL: Thanks, Kerry. At a personal level, what keeps me awake at night is cybersecurity, but in the broader sense, our financial strength is actually quite important because our financial strength gives us options and resources.  We have reserves; we have provisions there to deal with the unexpected.  So I wouldn't dismiss our financial strength.  It's really one of the great strengths of the Fund. 

But in terms of the other major risks, the Board is very conscious ‑ and we've already spoken about it a lot ‑ that the world is changing very rapidly.  Technology is a great strength but it's not always clear what's going to happen. So it's, I guess, our capacity to adapt.  That has been one of our great strengths over the 40 years, and that capacity to adapt has come from governance that has enabled us to respond to changes in circumstances. So it's being able to deal with the unexpected, to always being able to think ahead and to have strategies in place that enable us to make the best use of that financial strength that I spoke of. So I'd just like to say that because our ability to adapt has been so important as part of our success, it is now baked in to our ability to deal with the future.

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Don.  The next question is from Puthick: what is the AustralianSuper exposure to Private Equity and Private Credit? And I'll ask Alistair Barker, Head of Asset Allocation, to answer this question.  Alistair?

ALISTAIR BARKER: Thanks for the question, Puthick.  We have approximately 2% in Private Credit and 5% in Private Equity, so a comparatively small part of the portfolio.  The largest private market investment asset class we have is infrastructure and, as Mark said, it's actually been one of the best‑returning private market assets and one of the best returning asset classes overall.  So thank you for your question.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Alistair.  The next question is from Ian.  Ian asks: why does it take so long to issue member annual statements? We are over three to four months into the new financial year before we get our year‑end values.  Thank you, Ian, and I'll ask Pamela Panagenas, our Head of Member Operations, to take this question.  Pamela?

PAMELA PANAGENAS: Thank you, Paula.  Thank you for your question, Ian.  It does take us three to four months to issue statements to you.  Those statements are a result of a culmination of reconciling all of the accounts at the end of the year for the Fund, valuing all of our assets, calculating tax, and that results in us producing a statement for all of our members to send out to you.  It does take that length of time, but always remember you can log into the website to get your most latest value if you want to keep across that as well.  Thank you.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Pamela.  Our next question is from James.  James asks: how are your unlisted assets valued? Who values your unlisted assets? How are these values validated and does that reflect their actual real value in the marketplace? I'll ask Investment Committee Chair, Philippa Kelly, to answer this question.  Philippa?

PHILIPPA KELLY: Thank you, James. At the Fund, we've developed a best‑practice governance framework for our valuations of unlisted assets, and there are two key principles for this: one, that the valuations are timely and the second, that they're independent.  So what this looks like in practice is that we have an independent valuations committee that is separate from the investing team and it also has independent external experts as members of that committee.  So it is run completely separate from the Investment team. The timeliness evaluations, we respond to what might be happening in markets and, in particular, we saw this year on the chart that Mark showed with the downfall in equities markets, where we talked about the 20% decline in listed equities, which only had a commensurate 8% decline in the Fund's Balanced Plan returns, that's an example of where we actually undertook a timely review of the private market valuations and managed to reflect what we thought was the accurate valuation of those at the time, but it wasn't as significant as we saw in listed markets.  Thank you.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Philippa.  We now have a question from Simon.  Simon asks: what is AustralianSuper doing to answer member phone calls and address complaints? I've lodged a complaint and haven't heard back. I'll ask Chief Member Officer, Rose Kerlin, to answer this question.  Rose?

ROSE KERLIN: Hello, Simon.  The first thing to know is that AustralianSuper has been undergoing a multi‑year transformation program to improve our member services.  In relation to specifically member phone calls, we've recently transitioned to a new contact centre to improve services.  What we've found is that we're seeing call resolution increase and we've also seen an improvement overall to customer satisfaction.  But, unfortunately, we were getting more calls and we didn't have enough agents to be answering all of those, so we've been putting on more agents, training them all up and getting them ready to help our members, to the point where we've just added a third contact centre in Ballarat, in addition to the ones we already had in Townsville and also in Brisbane. 

In regards to complaints, we've also been improving our complaints service.  18 months ago, we brought that in‑house.  We've now got 100 specialists that are working to resolve member complaints very quickly, and you heard earlier that we've actually been improving our response rates.  If you've emailed in your complaint ‑ I'm not sure how you lodged it, Simon ‑ we get back to you within five days.  If you haven't heard back, I'd love if we could follow up with you.  So if you could send in your details, we'll ensure we get you a response very quickly.

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Rose, and we're very sorry, Simon, that that has been your experience.  We now have a question from Bruce.  Bruce asks: please assure us that AustralianSuper is not like Shield and First Guardian, which recently collapsed.  Can you reassure us how this could not happen to you? I'll ask Paul Schroder to answer this very important question. 

PAUL SCHRODER:  Thanks, Bruce. So, many people will know that the Shield Master Fund and First Guardian Master Fund are in the news at the moment and have seemingly lost probably many thousands of people more than $1 billion.  It's a very distressing situation.  Now, APRA, one of the regulators, and ASIC, one of the regulators, and many others are investigating, so I can't say precisely what's happened there.  Eventually, something will come to the surface and it's really important that all the regulators focus on that and that all the proper players play all of their proper roles in helping trying to address that for those people who have been harmed by it. 

There's a couple of really important distinctions between those operations and a really globally diversified portfolio like AustralianSuper's.  Those small operations are very often concentrated in a small number of assets and, as Mark has said and as Philippa has said and as I have said, having a globally diversified portfolio makes a really big difference because sometimes assets rise and sometimes they fall and sometimes they fail, but in the context of the overall portfolio, they have very little impact, whereas in a very concentrated situation, as is most likely the case at Shield and First Guardian, a loss is of real significance. 

Now, again, I can't say what's happened there in those instances, and there may well be even more distressing details to come, but AustralianSuper is committed to the best practice risk management.  We've got very distinct obligations to APRA in terms of investment governance and very significant in terms of liquidity and other matters that we have to manage carefully on your behalf.  So the character and the nature of AustralianSuper is fundamentally different than the entities that you've been talking about.  The intensity of regulatory engagement and our response to that is fundamentally different to the entities that you've just discussed, and those two things should provide you, Bruce, with a great deal of assurance about the distinction and the difference between a properly globally diversified large fund ‑ not just like AustralianSuper, but those other APRA‑regulated diversified global funds ‑ and some of these more specialist funds. 

The thing I would worry about the most, just to take this a little bit further, is that some of these organisations were setting up websites to flog super outcomes.  It's really distressing to me that somebody can set up a thing that says AustralianSupercomparative.com or fixyoursuper.com.  They ask people to go online and then they say, "What about having some magic money or a whole lot more money? How do you feel about that?". Well, of course, people are worried about their futures and they're worried about their money, so then they go, "Oh, I'd like to have more money" and then the call centre kicks in and the contact centre kicks in and the sell kicks in. 

So I'd like to share a warning with all members, which is to say: if something is saying it's going to earn CPI plus 8 and the AustralianSuper Balanced Plan, with all of our financial strength and all of our strength and skill, is saying CPI plus 4, you have to wonder: if it looks too good to be true, it most likely will be. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Bruce, for that important question.  We now have a question from Charles: I'm concerned about your cybersecurity, especially now considering the credential stuffing incident that took place earlier this year.  I know you have introduced MFA, multi‑factor authentication.  Can you tell me what you are doing about, firstly, full data encryption, then managing your third party supplier data risks and, finally, preparing in case of cyber attacks from countries overseas?  I am sure these are concerns of many of your members.  Thank you, Charles, and I'll ask our Chief Operating Officer, who is also our Chief Technology Officer, Mike Backeberg, to answer this question. Mike? 

MIKE BACKEBERG: Thank you, Charles.  It's a really important question and I want to assure you that we take members' privacy and members' data security very seriously. In terms of addressing your specific questions, all our data is encrypted, whether that's stored internally or at our third parties, and when you interact with AustralianSuper, be that through the mobile app or through the Member Portal, that is encrypted as well. 

We also have a program underway where we regularly assess how our controllers are operating at our third parties and this provides us assurance that any data that is stored through any of our third parties is secure.  That is done and tested regularly, including through an annual test that we undertake, to ensure that we remain compliant with Australian regulatory guidelines.

In terms of considerations about third parties gaining access to fund data, we run scenarios and testing to ensure that we are able to respond and to restore services to you, should there be any issues that we encounter.  We also get threat intelligence regularly from regulators and through our own threat intelligence assessment to determine what's happening in the market  to ensure that we actually adapt and respond to any of these threats that may emerge. If you have any concerns about security, including your private security or anything going on that you are concerned about where you may have been subject to a fraud, please refer to our website.  There is information available to you in terms of good practices that you can undertake to look after your own identity while you work online. Thank you, Paula. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Mike.  We now have a question from Paul: do and are cryptocurrencies part of AustralianSuper's current or future investment strategies? What benefits are anticipated of cryptocurrencies over more traditional or conventional investment platforms? I'll ask Head of Asset Allocation, Alistair Barker, to answer this question. Alistair? 

ALISTAIR BARKER: Thanks, Paul, for your question.  I think the last part of your question around platforms is really interesting, and I'll get to that.  We don't currently invest in cryptocurrency and I'll explain why.  The critical reason is, as custodians of your savings, we have to design investment processes that are reliable.  We're looking after your savings and we need to make sure we're investing in things where we can identify the key drivers in investment; for example, how is it valued? What's driving the outcome? What are the risks and what is the downside? And most recently, we've seen an almost 30% fall in Bitcoin in the last three or four weeks, primarily because of the risk and the volatility of these types of securities.

Now, that being said, the dynamics around cryptocurrency are driven by two underlying trends that we've sought to capture.  The first is the rise of technology and the second is a decrease in trust in governments and a question around whether governments can pay back the debts that they've raised.  We have sought to do that by investing in real assets and also reducing investment in fixed income.  So real assets are things like data centres, things like the technology companies and reducing exposure to fixed income. So the underlying dynamics we think are interesting but we've sought to access them in investments that we can understand and properly value. 

The final point to your question around platforms is a really interesting one, and the most important development we've seen this year is the GENIUS Act.  So this is an Act which was brought through by the US Government to increase the adoption and the use of these types of technologies.  The particular one I'd point to is a strong desire from the US Government to get the adoption and the use of stablecoins.  So this is the same technology as cryptocurrency but backed by the US dollar.  We're starting to see the adoption of these types of things in trading systems.  So it's quite likely ‑ and this was a view a number of years ago that blockchain as an underlying technology would be a new type of financial infrastructure that people would trade on, and we're starting to see that now.  So it is evolving but we're certainly very focused on: when we invest, we want to capture the right dynamics but do it in a way that we understand.  Again, thank you for your question, Paul. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Alistair.  We now have a question from Kamleshwar:  the markets have performed really well over the past decade or two.  Some consider that it is now ready for a major correction.  How is AustralianSuper placed for dealing with, say, a 20% to 30% correction in shares and real estate values, say, over a five‑year horizon? I'll ask Chief Investment Officer, Mark Delaney, to answer this question. Mark?

MARK DELANEY: Thanks for the question. As I talked about in my presentation, a 20% decline in equity markets ‑ and you actually saw it this year ‑ can happen quite often, every two or three years, and bigger ones probably every five to six to eight years.  We have had a really great period.  I just saw some data on one of the slides: global equities have done 12% per annum for the last 10 years, so it's been a phenomenal period to invest. 

But these events happen a lot in global equity markets as investors, so the key thing you have to do is make sure your portfolio is appropriately diversified to handle these events.  They're going to come along over your investment horizon.  You're probably going to, over the life of the time you're in super, have five, six of these events, major equity market corrections, over that period, and the key part is to stay the course, not panic out at the bottom, and keep your money invested. So we look at diversification being the first bedrock for defending portfolios against these events, and we've got fixed interest to do that job, plus unlisted assets, which we've talked about providing a key part to that. 

The second thing we do is try to actively manage the portfolio, anticipate these events where we can, and adjust our exposure so we can limit the impact of when these downturns occur.  I talked a little bit about how we're looking at the AI cycle at the current time, indicating I think that while things are getting pretty warm, they're not in bubble territory at the current time.  So that's our best view, but the cornerstone of any decent portfolio is robust diversification. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Mark.  We now have a question from Lindsay: are there any AustralianSuper staff at each call centre? I'll ask Chief Member Officer, Rose Kerlin, to answer the question.  Rose?

ROSE KERLIN: Thanks, Lindsay.  Call centre skills are very, very specific and what we did was we went out to tender and decided to choose Concentrix, which is a leading customer experience global organisation, to partner with us to be our call centre provider.  And, as I said, we've got sites at Brisbane, in Townsville and also now in Ballarat.  We've got a team of AustralianSuper people that oversee the contract that we have with Concentrix and also ensure that there's good measures in place, and we monitor all of that very seriously.  We actually do daily stand‑ups with the Concentrix staff to ensure that we're getting all of the inputs and everything is running really well.  Quite recently, the Executive team went and visited our site at Townsville, and also our Member and Employer Services Committee travelled to Brisbane to go and meet with all of the Senior Executives over at Concentrix at that site as well.  So the contact is deep throughout the Fund at all levels from the very top. 

PAULA BENSON: Thanks, Rose.  We now have a question from Nat: what are ownership rights and how do you use them? And I'll ask Andrew Gray, Head of ESG and Stewardship, to answer this one.  Andrew?

ANDREW GRAY: Thanks, Paula, and thanks for the question, Nat.  A really interestingly timed question actually because we're just getting to the tail end of Australian AGM season where we've been quite active in our voting activity at those companies. 

But to go back a step, so our ownership rights vary according to asset type and asset class, but I will just focus on ASX companies.  So for an ASX company, our ownership rights give us the opportunity to directly engage with Company Boards and express to them what's in our members' best investment interests and also give us the opportunity to vote.  As Paul mentioned earlier, all of our ESG activities are conducted through an investment lens, and so we're taking that investment lens into these engagements and voting activities. 

So for ASX companies, for Financial Year 2025, we conducted 133 direct engagement meetings at 58 ASX companies, and the key or the most common topics we were discussing at those meetings were things such as governance, work force and climate change.  For FY25, we voted on over 1,470 resolutions, and of eight of those ‑ four covered climate change, they were climate change shareholder resolutions; three were on climate, where we were voting on companies' climate change plans; and 213 votes were on Remuneration Reports, so we get to vote on the remuneration structures at these companies.  Interestingly, out of those remuneration votes, we voted against 11%, which is about average over most of the voting seasons. 

I just quoted there the FY25 numbers, so, as I mentioned, we are getting through the current AGM season.  So we report our voting statistics on our website.  So in about a quarter or so, we'll release the current voting stats so you'll be able to see our voting record for the current season.  So thanks again, Nat. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Andrew.  We now have a question from Paul: you've highlighted increased investment infrastructure, yet that asset class seems to return only around 6%.  Can you explain how the Fund is balancing these valuation risks and why infrastructure, given its lower return, is still an important part of the portfolio? Thanks, Paul, for your question and I'll ask Chief Investment Officer, Mark Delaney, to answer this one. Mark? 

MARK DELANEY: Hi, Paul.  You're right, 6% isn't enough, and last year's return was pretty disappointing.  I think you get a better idea of what the returns are from infrastructure looking at the five‑ and ten‑year numbers, and both of them have been around 10% per annum.  That's really solid, and if you compare that, pretty close to listed equities, it's a really great part of the portfolio, given its relatively low volatility. So I still think it can play a really important role in the portfolio, as long as you get good‑quality assets because it has strong barriers to entry, good inflation protection and good growth prospects in some of these assets.  So they provide a very important part to the portfolio.  They grow well.  They earn well, and 10% per annum or thereabouts is a really hefty return and one we'd like to have in the portfolio. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Mark. We now have a question from Geoffrey: upon retirement, what support can I get from my super fund?  What are my options? And I'll ask Peter Treseder, our Education Manager, to answer this question. 

PETER TRESEDER: Hi, Geoffrey, and thanks for your question. Once you can access your super, it's really up to you what you do with it.  If you think that it's been building up in an account over the years you've been working, you can access that whenever you want; take out small chunks, big chunks, until it's empty.  You don't have to touch it either.  You could move it into an account‑based pension, which is still another superannuation account, and, as Paul mentioned before, Choice Income with AustralianSuper, it gives you the option to get a regular income, so a regular income coming into your bank account.  You can still take out lump sums if you wish, but getting a regular income is a bit like paying yourself.  You worked all your life and got regular income; now you may be able to get regular income in your retirement years.  Thanks, Geoffrey.

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Peter.  We now have a question from Matt: what are AustralianSuper's plans regarding using AI for investment decisions? And I'll ask Alistair Barker, Head of Asset Allocation, to answer the question.  Alistair?

ALISTAIR BARKER: Thanks, Matt.  This topic is enormous.  I think what I'd say is that there was a time in investing where people calculated things by hand or used a tabulation, and then we moved into spreadsheets, and then people starting using computer programming, and now people will start using AI.  So it is just the next evolution in how we'll need to make investment decisions, and we either move with it or we will be left behind.  So the path is sort of inevitable in many respects. 

What are we doing today? I would say it's very early days.  We're certainly using it to automate a lot of processes, so to help, for example, code models, automated processes, record meetings, take minutes really trying to improve the speed and the accuracy of what we do, reduce manual handling and control risk. But it's very early days.  Are we using it to actually make investment decisions today? No.  We're trying to use it to augment some of our process to make things faster and easier.  Thank you.

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Alistair.  And now we have a question from Paul: have you considered offering investments for members with funds outside of super? I'll ask our Chief Executive, Paul Schroder, to answer Paul's question. 

PAUL SCHRODER:  Thanks, Paul. Popular name.  Not common; popular. Thanks for asking.  We have thought about this quite a bit over time. You might know this central idea but superannuation is a method where people put money away to preserve it until they retire and, in return, the Federal Government provides tax concessions for people.  So you're asked to lock up your money, you save for 30 or 40 years, and, in return, the Government provides you with a tax concession to compensate you for having your money put away until retirement.  That's called preservation.  That's a really important part that underpins the super system. For investments outside super, that preservation arrangement doesn't apply. 

So one of the things we thought about when we've been considering whether we might bring our investment expertise and capability to assets outside super was: could we do it? Yes, we could do it.  Would we be able to do a good job of it? Yes, we'd be able to do a good job of it.  But might it come at the expense of people saving for their retirement? And that's what we were worried about: when you start to think about questions about might it change what you invest in, might it change liquidity, might it change the way you think about it, might it introduce more costs in terms of trying to promote that outside super offering, might it introduce more risks to introduce the outside super offering? So you will know, from all the things we've talked about today, that our purpose is to help members, each of you, achieve your best financial position in retirement, so save, save more than you would have, earn more than you could have, protect all your assets better than you'd be able to by yourself, so that combination of I saved more, I earnt more, risk‑adjusted post‑tax and post‑fees, and I protected my assets better than I could through a globally diversified portfolio, through managing all the cyber risks that Mike talked about, by making sure that the money is spread across the globe in various assets, in various locations, and providing great assurances, that that combination ‑ save more, earn more, protect better ‑ means you've all got more money to spend in retirement, usually in conjunction with the aged pension. 

So, Paul, yes, we have thought carefully about whether we would, and we could, but we think that it would come at the expense of our main job, and our main job is to help you save more, earn more, protect your assets better so you've all got more money to spend in retirement. Thanks, Paul. 

PAULA BENSON: Thank you, Paul.  And thank you, all.  That concludes the Question and Answer session and this Annual Member Meeting. While we didn't have enough time to answer every question, please be assured all questions will be answered in the Minutes of this Meeting published on the AustralianSuper website within a month.  These Minutes will be available at australiansuper.com/AMM.  Thank you for joining us.  I hope you have found the event informative.  My colleagues and I, along with everyone at AustralianSuper, are incredibly proud to work for you.  The Fund continues to go from strength to strength.  We look forward to reporting back to you on our progress at this forum next year and look forward to seeing you again then. Thank you.